Good for you oncewas...Tell it like it is. The scripture be lead forth in peace springs to mind and that is what was happening with you. At different times in my life God has lead me in that same manner and it is always him no matter how unbelievable at the time. You just go with the trust you have in him. Later you look back and can see his hand in it all.
Re: Worker worship « Reply #47 on Oct 2, 2007, 5:43am »
quote - "I'm not following your reasoning at all, I'm afraid. Or are you stating that the workers have a responsibility to prune off of the vine any branches that are dis-eased? And that this dis-ease comes from people "not getting it?" To "get it" one must completely suspend disbelief? Accusing those of us who were part of the 2x2s and then left as never having "gotten it" is an easy out, in my oppinion.
By "gotten it" I mean a person doesn't "get" what we believe. They may "get" some other doctrine.
quote - "When I professed, I was as sincere as I could possibly be, and I remained so as I offered for the work, started in the work, struggled with being in the work, and left the work. Right up to the point that I realized I had better peace in my heart when I stayed home from meetings than when I went, I prayed and prayed."
And many are like that - happy to be outside of our faith.
quote - "Neither you, nor anyone else on this planet, has the authority to presume that leaving one or another church, sect, cult, fellowship means that we have no direct communication with God, or that we have chosen to ignore God's sanctioning of this one particular group in order to fulfill our own selfish desires."
I don't judge anyone's relationship with God. I can only comment on specific behaviors, because behavior is an important element of our relationship with God.
geoff Charter Member Forum Moderator[M:21] member is offline
Joined: Nov 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 648 Location: West Lothian, Scotland
Re: Worker worship « Reply #48 on Oct 2, 2007, 6:24am »
Prubert posted... "By "gotten it" I mean a person doesn't "get" what we believe."
Sometimes I'm confused by what you say. As a fellow member of this fellowship, just what do you say we do believe? What, precisely, is it that people don't "get"?
Dennis Jacobsen Charter Member Forum Moderator[M:30] member is offline
B&R, well indoctrinated, USA/Swedish ex-worker married, kids, axed in '86, free at last in '90!
Joined: Jan 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 219 Location: Castle Rock WA 98611, USA
Re: Worker worship « Reply #49 on Oct 2, 2007, 6:29am »
The behavior of anyone making such posts as the foregoing reveals their own arrogant self-righteousness which are but garments of filthy rags in the sight of God according to the Holy Bible. Why do I believe and state this? For 50 years I was devout, loyal, fully "getting" the mindset and understanding of that very same arrogant self-righteousness. None can truthfully or honestly post otherwise.
Once Paul was called upon to relate something, saying he wrote foolishly, for few had more to boast regarding such devout belief as himself. I could write just as foolishly. Why7 I was born third and forth generation "professing."
Believing naively and innocently that what I had been taught and indoctrinated to believe about workers, meetings, and "the truth" was the only true way to believe about them and God. Offering for "the work", going in "that work."
Receiving place and honor, offering for "the work" abroad. Leaving my people and homeland to travel and work abroad in "that work," teaching what I certainly "GOT."
Enduring an accident while in that work, which left me crippled and in pain for the rest of my life from a compressed fracture of the fifth lumbar, fractured sacrum, and sacroiliac, transfered impact damage to the axis joint of the neck. Left with a lifetime of uninsurability, (being unable to go even two years at a stretch without medical treatment.) Forced to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in uncompensated medically related consequences.
All the time "getting it." Defending "it."
Only to be falsely accused and then excommunicated from the group, forbidden to attend meetings unless admitting to those false UNPROVEN accusations, yet still defending the group and "that work." Not "getting it?" Yeah right, and this from someone who has NEVER been in that work, much less endured such things? Indeed, I write foolishly.
FINALLY, in desperation, going only to God, taking the scripture and challenging GOD to open, give, reveal, as those scriptures promised. THEN, discovering what I had fully believed, in "getting it," was in error, based upon deceptions, false beliefs, deceit, arrogance, self-righteousness. SO thankful for being able to understand at last. To freely admit before all just how much in error I had been, and believed.
Repenting, rethinking, different conclusions, turning from those teachings, doctrines, and error. Trusting only in GOD, believing ONLY in my Lord and God, Yehu'shuah, the Anointed Savior, and no longer in any method, system or way other than HIM a Being who lived as my substitute righteousness, kinsman redeemer, who died in MY place, that I might have eternal life. Everlasting life. A gift given to those who believe.
Understanding eternal reward is on one PART of eternal life. IF one builds upon that foundation of the Lord's righteousness and substitute sacrifice that which will endure as gold, precious stones! Else losing all, as if by fire, but still being saved because of the gift of eternal life. Understanding that which has been left in the Holy Bible that relates this outright!
Understanding that there is only one Apostle!! All others are "apostles," who but only those who bear the marks (signs and wonders) of those early apostles, but not those who merely proclaim themselves "apostles." Or who are "apostles falsely so called."
When someone now tries to assert outright neither I nor others really "get it" or have "gotten it" they merely reveal to thinking people just how arrogant such assertions really are, and are to be withstood to their face for their own deceptive statements which are simply untrue. They would be teachers unknowing they merely proclaim that which they have been indoctrinated to believe, thinking it to be from "God."
Yes, I accept that I am indeed indoctrinated to believe the scriptures as containing those things which teach of Yehu'shuah, the Anointed. It is those things which I NOW believe true, and have been proven true to me in ways many others will refuse to accept. However, it has not been from listening to someone teaching me what to believe true, and then, thinking THAT is from God.
Re: Worker worship « Reply #50 on Oct 2, 2007, 7:05am »
quote - " just what do you say we do believe? What, precisely, is it that people don't "get"?"
Odd question if you say you are one of us, no? Outside people don't get our understanding of the spirit and its effect upon lives. But then, I don't "get" Roman Catholicism, or quantum physics (even though I am reading an article on it right now.
geoff Charter Member Forum Moderator[M:21] member is offline
Joined: Nov 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 648 Location: West Lothian, Scotland
Re: Worker worship « Reply #51 on Oct 2, 2007, 7:43am »
"Odd question if you say you are one of us, no? Outside people don't get our understanding of the spirit and its effect upon lives. But then, I don't "get" Roman Catholicism, or quantum physics (even though I am reading an article on it right now. "
Odd question? No I don't think so. Its just that many things you bring up seem so different to what I hear, say and discuss in our meetings. True, we're a hemisphere (and half a rotation) apart, but you seem to have enough differences to raise this question.
I've found "outside" people who do understand the Spirit, and "inside " people who don't.
I didn't "get" Catholicism either, even when I was one.
Worker worship.. I just began to really realize how truly wrong this is and how REAL it is and going on in this fellowship. Quite a few months back before I began to question my beliefs (that I was raised in) with great depth, I was given the yearly workers picture from convention. When the professing lady handed it to me, I remember the feeling I had in my heart and it was one of being disgusted. I say this because at that moment it really became apparent to me how people are worshiping the workers. And that I had been doing it too. It seems the pictures of workers are everywhere in people's homes, hanging up for everyone to see. It's one thing to have pictures of friends and family around here and there..but to have those whom you consider God's servants all lined up for a picture and given out so often... that is giving glory to the workers and taking away the glorify from God who deserves ALL GLORY forever!!
Not to mention the speaking lists that are sent out in e-mails which again are pointing straight to the workers. To see who is speaking so we can glorify them some more.
I say these things not to disrespect and hurt anyone else. Just convictions that God has given to me and I'm very thankful for. I just want all the glory to go to Him.
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